Segment groupings for the Hardy DNA

With the addition of so many testers for the Hardy family on Gedmatch,  and since it lacks the double relationships of the McCurdy family (which would make it so much more complicated), I decided to examine the frequency of matching segments within this family grouping. This comparison includes descendants from three different lines of Gardner Hardy and his wife. Aside from one sibling pair and one grandparent/grandchild relationship, no two are closer than 2nd cousins to each other. Kits not on Gedmatch (several other DNA kits at Ancestry) are excluded from table. I did not include myself (since my father’s in the matches) but did my daughter (out of curiosity). I did not include the nephew and great niece of MW, nor did I include LQ or AJ from Gedmatch. (I forgot to include their numbers in the tag group).

Relationships to Gardner Hardy and wife Harriet

GG granddaughters HH, MW and BO (2 sibling lines)

GGG grandchild CB

GGGG grandchildren AF, CP, LB, JB, and KW (2 sibling lines)
GGGGG Grandchild me (omitted) 

GGGGGG grandchild BM

	HH	BO	MW	CB	CP	KW	JB	LB	AF	BM
HH	NA	3C	3C	3C1R	2C1R	2C1R	2C1R	2C1R	3C2R	2C3R
BO	3C	NA	½ 2C	3C1R	3C2R	3C2R	3C2R	3C2R	3C2R	3C4R
MW	3C	½ 2C	NA	3C1R	3C2R	3C2R	3C2R	3C2R	3C2R	3C4R
CB	3C1R	3C1R	3C1R	NA	4C1R	4C1R	4C1R	4C1R	3C1R	4C2R
CP	2C1R	3C2R	3C2R	4C1R	NA	3C	3C	3C	5C	3C2R
KW	2C1R	3C2R	3C2R	4C1R	3C	NA	3C	3C	5C	3C2R
JB	2C1R	3C2R	3C2R	4C1R	3C	3C	NA	S	5C	G
LB	2C1R	3C2R	3C2R	4C1R	3C	3C	S	NA	5C	GA
AF	3C3R	3C2R	3C2R	3C1R	5C	5C	5C	5C	NA	4C2R
BM	2C3R	3C4R	3C4R	4C2R	3C2R	3C2R	G	GA	4C2R	NA

C COUSIN
R REMOVED
G GRANDPARENT/CHILD
GA GREAT AUNT/GREAT NIECE 

KEY

A979331 = HH

A163770= CP

A469842=CB

A479920=AF

A702878=KW

A141915=MW

A294597=LB

A317751=BO

M155722=JB

A935169=BM

Notes on the participants:

AF, LB and JB are related twice (3C1R Brunson) and MW, CP, LB and JB are related twice. (MW is 3C1R for CP and 4C1R for LB and JB Pyburn). CP, LB and JB are also 1/2 1C1R Pyburn. Some of their matches may be indicative of this. 

Because of the close relationships between LB and JB (siblings), JB and BM (grandparent/grandchild) and LB and BM (share more than normal for great Aunt relationship) I omitted their matches to each other from the table.

Segment Details:

Each chromosome block is separated. Matching triangulations are highlighted different colors if more than one per chromosome. Only segments greater than 7 cM were considered.

Chromosome 1 has two segments 1. CB, CP and HH  2. CB, AF and HH.

Chromosome 2 1 segment MW, HH and AF

Chromosome 3 1 segment HH, LB, JB and BM

Chromosome 8 1 segment CP, LB and JB

Chromosome 9 has three segments 1. HH, KW, LB, JB and BM. 2. CP, LB and JB   3. KW, JB, BM and HH

Chromosome 11 has two segments 1. MW, HH, KW and JB and 2. CP, LB and JB

Chromosome 16 has two segments 1. HH, JB, LB and BM and 2. HH, LB and JB

Chromosome 19 1 segment CP, LB, JB and BM

Chromosome 20 has two segments 1. CP, LB, JB and BM 2. CP, LB and JB

		Chromosome position				cM
Kit 1	Kit 2		From	To				Individuals
A979331	A163770	1	26253392	37188856	12.6			HH/CP
A979331	A469842	1	18395918	34210183	21.3			HH/CB
A979331	A469842	1	37098064	54532654	16.9			HH/CB
A979331	A479920	1	36762623	54857729	17.9			HH/AF
A163770	A469842	1	26399842	34179429	9.0			CP/CB
A317751	A469842	1	235929210	238829389	7.3			BO/CB
A469842	A479920	1	37022675	61739170	28.2			CB/AF
A479920	M155722	1	203145327	221229369	21.4			CB/JB
A141915	A979331	2	5529323	8562151	8.2			MW/HH
A141915	A479920	2	8674	8572032	19.2			MW/AF
A979331	A479920	2	5194520	23025601	34.8			HH/AF
A979331	M155722	3	186275138	194766213	20.8			HH/JB
A294597	A317751	3	195429228	199302161	7.8			LB/BO
A979331	A935169	3	186275138	194369555	19.9			HH/BM
A979331	A294597	3	186275138	194594559	20.4			HH/LB
A163770	M155722	4	14571594	25566249	14.8			CP/JB
A163770	M155722	4	56163242	115532764	51.7			CP/JB
A141915	A317751	4	22783024	44240138	28.1			MW/BO
A141915	A469842	4	11260654	18305690	10.5			MW/CB
A163770	A294597	4	36636831	149210445	96.3			CP/LB
A979331	A317751	4	103425175	154140029	42.1			HH/BO
A163770	A479920	4	183469264	191117403	23.0			CP/AF
A979331	A317751	5	4728355	10647061	14.7			HH/BO
A979331	A317751	5	173884149	180623543	13.0			HH/BO
A979331	A294597	5	91139	5449166	16.6			HH/LB
A141915	A163770	5	43230470	72803922	18.0			MW/CP
A163770	A702878	6	52548929	77341549	13.9			CP/KW
A979331	A163770	6	76685732	94527150	12.6			HH/CP
A141915	A702878	6	90755541	115213539	22.0			MW/KW
A294597	A469842	7	128561006	139626312	17.8			LB/CB
A294597	A469842	7	139638793	147541365	9.6			LB/CB
A979331	A469842	7	100311486	128653625	21.3			HH/CB
A979331	A317751	7	78228236	92915996	13.7			HH/BO
A163770	A294597	7	152062575	155787451	13.0			CP/LB
A979331	A317751	7	140652473	153688926	23.7			HH/BO
A141915	A979331	7	135135332	139333773	7.6			MW/HH
A141915	A317751	7	140018	12976720	22.4			MW/BO
A163770	A294597	8	154984	19761371	36.8			CP/LB
A163770	M155722	8	11837063	19754748	14.2			CP/JB
A979331	A163770	8	141272891	146255887	6.9			HH/CP
A163770	A702878	8	138342832	143900614	12.6			CP/KW
A163770	A294597	9	9820675	22174674	20.6			CP/LB
A163770	A294597	9	74236384	97358747	31.8			CP/LB
A979331	A702878	9	105245648	115447048	13.3			HH/KW
A294597	A702878	9	36787328	75093675	8.9			LB/KW
A141915	A469842	9	77481681	92767566	24.7			MW/CB
A979331	A935169	9	22954237	72864176	22.1			HH/BM
A979331	M155722	9	22933509	76200501	24.0			HH/JB
A294597	A479920	9	91230295	106219930	14.5			LB/AF
A979331	A294597	9	36708368	74710880	8.8			HH/LB
A979331	A469842	9	9691768	18506996	15.5			HH/CB
A979331	A469842	9	92763654	109372390	15.6			HH/CB
A163770	M155722	9	36587	9793954	24.6			CP/JB
A163770	M155722	9	9820675	23077926	22.0			CP/JB
A702878	M155722	9	23029269	76336288	24.1			KW/JB
A702878	M155722	9	77257922	90007008	19.8			KW/JB
A702878	M155722	9	90025409	105812580	16.4			KW/JB
A979331	A702878	9	16831628	77780489	36.5			HH/KW
A935169	A702878	9	22975180	70303655	20.4			BM/KW
A935169	A702878	9	90752686	106321200	15.6			BM/KW
A163770	A294597	9	36587	9790624	24.6			CP/LB
A979331	M155722	10	43432251	58174129	10.1			HH/JB
A141915	A317751	10	78912098	98920382	20.1			MW/BO
A163770	M155722	10	124710874	129852662	11.3			CP/JB
A979331	A317751	10	100231194	117585534	16.7			HH/BO
A979331	A294597	10	131509629	135218153	7.9			HH/LB
A141915	M155722	11	11275540	22024112	19.1			MW/JB
A163770	M155722	11	120412692	131671950	24.6			CP/JB
A141915	A979331	11	12190304	20261673	12.8			MW/HH
A141915	A702878	11	11202952	21681310	18.7			MW/KW
A979331	A702878	11	12190304	20271219	12.8			HH/KW
A702878	M155722	11	6326952	24713901	30.5			KW/JB
A979331	M155722	11	12186013	20390059	13.3			HH/JB
A163770	A294597	11	120412692	131662082	24.5			CP/LB
A141915	A163770	11	21495631	37482970	19.7			MW/CP
A979331	A163770	11	36410807	57927370	10.4			HH/CP
A979331	A469842	12	4423593	11834044	14.8			HH/CB
A163770	A294597	13	45361852	77923366	25.1			CP/LB
A979331	A469842	13	48885869	67933662	8.7			HH/CB
A163770	A317751	14	18325726	22091770	10.8			CP/BO
A141915	A702878	14	18397823	21701057	10.6			MW/KW
A141915	A317751	14	20741156	30042415	17.7			MW/BO
A979331	A702878	14	22240100	36131784	26.5			HH/KW
A141915	A317751	14	67141763	75076130	9.2			MW/BO
A979331	A479920	15	56838189	79980837	29.2			HH/AF
A163770	A294597	16	83114818	86841204	12.4			CP/LB
A979331	M155722	16	12909860	25013707	18.7			HH/JB
A979331	M155722	16	77537248	81711523	13.7			HH/JB
A979331	A935169	16	77506742	79790065	8.1			HH/BM
A979331	A294597	16	12928118	25026271	18.7			HH/LB
A979331	A294597	16	50765270	60842865	17.0			HH/LB
A979331	A294597	16	77537248	81709762	13.7			HH/LB
A141915	A702878	16	63745808	76529684	10.6			MW/KW
A702878	M155722	16	81550330	83371654	7.6			KW/JB
A317751	M155722	17	12598569	15292929	10.9			BO/JB
A163770	A469842	18	10367306	20155913	11.9			CP/CB
A979331	A294597	18	42599978	47731053	7.1			HH/LB
A163770	M155722	19	45423785	55213143	15.6			CP/JB
A163770	A294597	19	3807656	14701575	24.4			CP/LB
A163770	A294597	19	45641512	55169512	15.2			CP/LB
A979331	A317751	19	1663898	10083195	28.0			HH/BO
A163770	A935169	19	45641512	55132371	15.1			CP/BM
A163770	M155722	20	11244	4001254	11.4			CP/JB
A163770	M155722	20	46866922	55987853	19.5			CP/JB
A163770	A935169	20	11799	1860981	7.2			CP/BM
A163770	A294597	20	11799	4001254	11.4			CP/LB
A163770	A294597	20	46866922	55987853	19.5			CP/LB
A979331	A702878	22	23813921	35301903	21.8			HH/KW
A979331	A702878	22	45300798	48499088	14.3			HH/KW
A163770	A469842	23	4638697	12647622	11.8			CP/CB
A163770	A479920	23	112505390	124911727	19.9			CP/AF
A469842	A479920	23	142568145	154886292	26.8			CB/AF

I must have a genealogical Angel- an adoption success story

Monday two things happened to me. I came down with pneumonia and I received a message from a DNA match who was an adoptee.

The match was pretty significant to a kit I manage at 110 centimorgans. She also matched in common five other family members from this family. At first I was using a screenshot of her top matches but eventually we shared results.

Being too sick to work, when I was not napping I worked on the matches. What I found was within her top 25 matches the majority of the matches were identified as either my family or another family the Hinote family.

 

With this information and the size of the matches, I knew not only exactly which place in my tree that this person could fit but where. The largest Hardy match was equivalent to the second degree first cousin match with my father. The largest matches for the Hinotes ranged from second cousin once removed to second cousin.

There's only one family in my tree where Hinote and Hardy's intermarry. So I took my next logical step I started looking for information.  

Using Google I found a website that commemorated a small community in Baldwin County Alabama. Among the students listed at the high school and at the local Lutheran Church was a brother and sister with the same name she was given at birth.

I tried reaching out to Hinotes on Facebook, but heard nothing back. Eventually I made a few phone calls and talked to the sister-in-law of the birth mother. After several hours she called back and gave me the number for the birth mother who I called and has since reunited by phone with her daughter.

But this is not just the story of a success in finding her family. Because when I spoke to the birth mother she told me the name of the father. Neither the birth mother nor this father share any genealogical history with either of the Hardy or the Hinote families other than where they live.

This is not the first time that I have found the answer to a brick wall by searching in the right place for the wrong thing. A lot of people would tell you that I'm pretty good at this geological stuff. However, I do know that there's no explanation why I have found on multiple occasions  the right answer by looking for the wrong thing.

In my head I attribute this to genealogical Angels. Some ancestor who is looking out for me and wants the stories to be told. In this case it would be to assist in my first successful attempt at helping an adoptee discover their identity.

Although in this case the DNA doesn't lie, I have no explanation for the difference in information.  Given the plethora of matches she has to both the Hinote family and the Hardy family somehow either one of her parents is not the child of their parents or the mother's mistaken. It is in many ways a miracle that I was able to find the birth mother so easily and for that I'm truly grateful.

Here is a look at her top matches

1.       Hainut001 … granddaughter of John William Hinote (brother of Archie)

2.       Shynote13 no info

3.       C D .. great grandson of Mattie Lee Hinote (dtr of Archie and Ella)

4.       H.H. … granddaughter of Robert Henry Hardy (brother of Ella)

5.       S.S. daughter of Lester Claude Highnote.. father was George Walter Highnote

6.       C.A. great granddaughter of Augustus Hinote (brother of William H. Hinote.. Archie’s Uncle)

7.       D.K. great granddaughter of Nicie Elmira Hinote (sister of William H. Hinote.. Archie’s Aunt)

8.       J. G. no info

9.       S.L  no info has tree

10.   51pamelak51 most likely Black (Archie’s mom’s family)

11.   Vkpwyo67 granddaughter of Leila Hardy (Ella’s niece)

12.   R.G. ? grandson of Leila Hardy (Ella’s niece)

13.   Connieposton1 no idea, in common with other Hinotes

14.   Jenniferhsrn (me) great granddaughter of Shepard Hardy Jr (Ella’s brother)

15.   Mckochanskyj no idea, matching in common other hinotes

16.   L.W. no tree

17.   Wegivens53 no tree

18.   Cingrumjr1 no idea

19.   Skipping some with no info

20.   MLW  great granddaughter of Robert Hardy (Ella’s uncle)

 

Just what is a Double cousin and how does that affect my DNA?

Technically, anytime you share more than one line you can be called a double cousin. My paternal tree is chock full of cousins with more than one family. It just isn't a joke when I say I am related to half of Santa Rosa and Escambia counties. That said, when I use that term I refer specifically to one set of circumstances alone. A double cousin is when you have a pair of siblings marry another pair of siblings. In my case, my great grandfather's sister married the brother of his wife.

So how does that affect DNA? Well looking at the ISOGG table, a first cousin would normally share 12.5 percent of DNA. Children of the double cousin marriage would share an average of 25 percent DNA. They also have the potential to have full and not half DNA matches.

Because I have tested both my father and his sister, and we have matches available who are double cousins, and multiple cousins, I am going to illustrate a difference in the shared DNA totals.

First let's take a look at CP. CP is the half first cousin once removed of my father and his sister, but CP is also their third cousin from another family. I haven't identified the segments for CP with my Aunt yet, but my father shares DNA from both families with her.

A half first cousin once removed has an estimation of sharing 3.125 percent of their DNA or 212.5 cM and a third cousin has the estimation of sharing 0.78 percent or 53.13 cM. Now we know it really should be a range, and that it is possible to share more or less with a match. So how does CP compare with my Aunt and my Dad? An average would be 265.6 cM. Dad shares 209.6 cM and his sister shares 361.5.

Next look at a double cousin. (I have several who have tested but results aren't available for both siblings). The first double cousin, DB is available to compare to both my dad and his sister. DB is a second cousin once removed from my Dad. The table shows double second cousins at 6.25 percent, so they should share 3.125  percent or about 212.5 cM. DB shares 370 cM with my Dad (220 cM with me!) and 215 cM with my Aunt.

The next double cousin is a first cousin of DB and is on Ancestry. DF shares 150 cM with me and 222 cM with my Aunt. Dad has two more on 23andme, sisters, they are also 2nd cousins once removed from a different child of the double cousin connection. One shares 4.58 percent, the other shares 2.81 percent. (23 and me gives percentage only, one is above the 3.125 average, one is below).

So let's look at another multiple cousin grouping from Dad's McCurdy line. So we have two sets of multiples to look at. The first is my Dad's great grandmother's sister who married her first cousin. Now I am not sure I am competent enough to tell you how much DNA they should share but, it is more than the normal relationship. We  have a plethera of testers now from this branch, but let's look at two, granddaughters of Carrie McCurdy and Jack. PM shares 168.9 cM with Dad and 193 cM with my Aunt, both of them are 2nd cousins once removed (average 106 cM). CM shares 107 cM with Dad and 187 cM with my Aunt. I have left off the X DNA matches in the total, they are 39.9 and 18 for Dad (PM and CM) and 36.9 and 19.6 for his sister. (Actually they are second cousins once removed and third cousins once removed).

Let's look at scenario number two. These are grandchildren of Dad's great great grandfather and his second wife, who happened to be his great niece. So they are half 2nd cousins twice removed on one side, and full fourth cousins on the other. ( I know it's complicated). JW shares 73 autosomal and 28.2 X cM with Dad, his first cousin JM shares 103 autosomal and 33 X cM with Dad. JW shares 122 autosomal and 28 X cM with my Aunt, his first cousin JM shares 108.9 Autosomal and no X with her.

So even when you share multiple lines, you may not share "more" DNA but you can share DNA from multiple lines, but if you are a "double" cousin, well, you will share a lot of DNA. So what is the difference? Double cousins share four not two grandparents in common, and I think that that's what makes the biggest difference, aside from genetic distance in generations in how much you share with a multiple cousin.

Hope this helps!