Saturday, March 26, 2016

Going home

I was born in Pensacola. My dad wanted his first born "son" to be born where  he had been. Surprise, not only was I not a son, but his son was born in California. When I look at the history Dad's family has in the panhandle, I am not surprised at the feeling I have had every time I head east past Mobile into Pensacola. The irony, I doubt I have spent more than 2 years there since 1975. Yet, in my heart, and my soul, heck, even in my blood, I know I am coming home.

The memories of my childhood time there are so vivid and dear. From "helping" my Aunt Becky and Sarah at their little store and gas station out 9 mile road near Beulah to late night trips to go swim at the beach. There was Sunday brunches with the family at Andre's or at a buffet, or if we were lucky, a trip to Hopkins boarding house. Summer vacations camping out at Munson, picking blackberry's, feeding the calves at my Uncle's in the morning. Trying to escape the sun at the inaccurately named Shady Grove Cemetery where most of Dad's family is buried.

I regret that I have spent so much of my life away from my cousins on both sides, decades have gone by before I see them. We aren't as close as I wish we were, but until 1975, they were so much of my life. We often moved from Pensacola to Buena Park, but I don't remember most of those times we were in Pensacola, I was too young. In California my Aunt Patt and my Aunt Sue and their children were part of our life always. My cousins Phyllis and Phil were so good to us. I remember wanting to be just like Phyllis when I grew up, a decade older, she seemed to be everything I wanted to aspire to. Phil like Phyllis always showed a lot of patience with what must have been annoying little kids.

Suzie, I remember as a baby. Her mom would step out and she would cry and to make her stop I would jump up and down. I don't know that it helped but at my age then, well, it was the best that I could think of. As she got older we played dress up, she always had the best toys. And of course there was always her Dad. Uncle Pete and Dad always got along. We all went together to San Diego to the zoo and Sea World. Or to Tijuana. There wasn't much time that my Aunts or my cousins weren't part of our life.

In Florida there was Uncle Ray and Aunt Sarah, Uncle David and Aunt Becky and Aunt Mandy and Uncle Mike. Uncle Ray's kids were someone we didn't see that much of, they were just so much older. Kandi was always off playing softball, but we did spend time with April and with Michael. April always told me I had to do what she said because she was my elder, and well Michael and Johnny always had more fun together than I did. There was 10 years between me and Little Ray and Phyllis, and about four between Suzie and I. As cousins do, we always managed to work it out somehow, but I know the older ones probably didn't appreciate being stuck with us younger ones.

It was my cousins that took me to my first R rated movie, the Lifeguard. I think it was in 1976. I remember Phyllis or  maybe Renee told me to close my eyes when the naked backside of Sam Gould was on the screen. In 1974 Dad and Uncle David decided to buy some calves. That fall it seemed like we got up at the crack of dawn every day to go bottle feed the calves. We avoided the shed though. Dad had chased down a wild hog and it would attack the shed wall if anyone walked by. I had to admit though I was afraid of Aunt Becky's rooster, going to get eggs wasn't really something I liked to do.

Back then Aunt Becky and Uncle David's house was tiny. But everyone was welcome. And the meals Aunt Becky would prepare. I think I don't think of a southern lady without thinking of Aunt Becky. Uncle Ray and Aunt Sarah had a pool, and boy we always wanted to go there to swim. Of course if we did you could count on Dad egging on Uncle Mike. In hindsight I don't think he was always that nice to him. The summer of 1976 we went to what I have been told was a reunion on the blackwater river. All I recall was tubing with my cousins and being told to hold on and not go in spots because there were snakes. If I got to meet any of Dad's relatives that day, I don't remember.

I remember seeing my great grandmother Mama Hardy the Christmas of 1975. I don't remember much about her, she was thin. She had white hair. She was old. Mom didn't like her much and she and Dad had a fight that day about going. I don't remember Aunt Dot's face either, or Aunt Eulene. I know we went to see them both more than once. But what I remember of Aunt Dot was she did ceramics and lived by a viaduct where there was an alligator in the water. And Aunt Eulene, I remember she had pretty hair, and I liked her laugh.

Uncle David has lived in the same place for as long as I can remember out on Klondike road. And Uncle Ray's place was out on 9 mile road. Even today I could get from either place to the other or to my stepmother's house in Myrtle Grove. As many times as I was there though, I couldn't tell you how in the heck we got to Aunt Mandy's or where in Pensacola she lived. The airfield by the house we lived in in 1975 is now some kind of business park or strip mall. I don't remember, but it was different I recall the last time  I was home 11 years ago.

When I got out of the Marines I lived in Pensacola for a year. I did get to meet Uncle Odell and Jinx, which actually was the first time I had ever heard I looked like my grandmother. By then Uncle Grady had died, but as many times as I remember going to the Barnes feed store, I don't ever remember meeting him. I do remember Aunt Becky's parents and visiting them though. Funny, I think I can picture their faces more than Dad's family.

I don't have the same memories of the family as Phyllis. It makes me sad sometimes that she has such bad memories of the family. For me, everyone is frozen in time in my heart. What I know and remember is those times from about 40 years ago. And as many decades as it has been, my Uncles are still Pete and Mike, even though they have been divorced most of that time, just as on my mom's side my Aunt's are my Aunt Anna and Aunt Barbara.

What I remember about growing up is feeling cherished and protected. After Mom and Dad divorced, pitied maybe. There was a security for me in my family. I wish my daughter could experience some of that. She doesn't have the extended family that I did. Whether it was my father's rather opinionated and loud Barnes clan, or my mom's stern and stiff Hinds one, I was lucky to have the experiences I did.

I wish that I had gotten to meet some of Dad's cousins. That I knew more of the family than Bobbie and Dan and Jill, like I do on my Mom's side. I wish I could have asked more questions of Dad's Aunt's and Uncle's. I wish my life and the lives of my cousins hadn't taken us all in different directions. And most of all, I wish my daughter knew what she was missing.

Tuesday, March 22, 2016

The Letters of John Wesley Hardin and me

John Wesley Hardin's correspondence was compiled and published by Roy and Jo Ann Stamps by Eakin Press in 2001. The book is titled The Letters of John Wesley Hardin. A relative had shared two of the letters, and because I was interested to see if there were more letters with family mentioned, I bought the book. Why did I want the correspondence of John Wesley Hardin? Well, his wife Jane. For years researchers have thought that Nancy her grandmother was a McCurdy. I had thought maybe not after I did DNA testing on CP because she matched none of the McCurdy's, and then her third cousin matched. He doesn't have another connection in common with the matches either. So here we go again.

John Wesley Hardin in 1877 became the business partner of my father's great great grandfather. Shep was in one of the first letters he wrote.

June 6, 1877 JWH to Jane mentions Liza and her pa Bob and Jim McCroney (McCraney). Mentions Shep (Hardy) Liza and Sallie, children Alis Ada and Lila (Lela). Mentions Wash Campbell. Mentions Uncle N. (Neill Campbell), Josh, Caroline, Neal and Mary (Campbell, children of Neill Campbell).

Bob would be Robert Hardy, brother of Shep who had married and was living in Baldwin County, where the Styx River logging camp where they were working. Jim McCraney was the husband of Shep's sister Harriet. Sallie is Shep's wife, Alis Ada and Lela his two youngest daughters. Wash Campbell is not only Jane's first cousin, he is the son in law of Shep (William Shepard Hardy Sr.).
What I have no idea is is who in the heck Liza is.

Uncle Neil Campbell is the husband of Jane's Aunt, Sarah Bowen. Josh, Caroline, Neal and Mary are his children.

Before I go into the other letters, I would like to give some background on Jane Bowen Hardin. Her father was Neil Bowen. Her mother was Mary Western. Her paternal grandparents were Joshua Bowen and Nancy (McCurdy, presumed). After her mother died, her father Neil married Purity Jane Sunday. Purity's mother, Anna McCurdy was a first cousin to Neil Bowen. Her mother Martha "Mattie" Bowen was a sister of Joshua Bowen, Neil's father. Anna's father is Elijah McCurdy who is we believe the brother, or possibly Uncle of Nancy.

Jane Bowen had full siblings, Joshua Robert (Brown), Nancy (wife of William Phillips), Mary Elizabeth "Lizzie" (wife of Duncan McGee), Martha "Mattie" (wife of Oliver Odom), and Julia Ann (wife of Benjamin Jernigan). She also had several half siblings.

Jane's father Neil Bowen had a brother named Joshua (he is always Josh or Joshua and her brother is always Brown), and sister Sarah who was married to Neil Campbell, and Margaret who was married to Benjamin Cobb.

 Below are letters referencing family members of Jane's. The letters to Jane in 1877 were in Florida. From the context it seems as if she's staying with the family of her Uncle Neil. After 1877 the letters are to her in Texas. She stayed with various family members until her death.

Sept 5, 1877 Mattie (Bowen, not Hardin) to Jane Mentions Ann and Frank, Nancy and William, dtr of Nancy named Jennie, Dunk and Lizzie, Ma (Purity) and her two latest children Beulah and Beasly, Aunt Margaret (Cobb) Cousin Charlie Cammel (Campbell), Uncle Joshes place, Nannie Cobb married Tommy Tennille.

Frank and Nannie are children of Margaret Cobb. 
I do not know who Ann and William are.
Oct 26, 1877 William and Mattie Bowen to Jane, mention Lizzie, Nancy and Nancy’s daughter Purity Jane.

Dec 6, 1877 JWH to Jane. Mentions to give love to the Campbells (abbreviated Uncle N, C, M N and J) mentions Jim, Jane and F (Family?), Talks about Brown Bowen.

Dec 20 1877 Mattie Bowen to Jane Mentions William, Duncan McGee, Pa. Sends Love to Uncle Neill and Family.
I have no idea who William is.
March 9, 1878 Mary Campbell to Jane  Mentions Caroline

April 19, 1878 Mattie Bowen to Jane, mentions seeing Browns body when they returned home.

Aug 8, 1878 JWH to Jane, wants her to make up with his mother. Says that she knows Purity her husband (who was Jane’s father) said he would kick her out of his yard, and that a friend of his told him and Joe Sunday they better stop talking about her and not mistreat her or they would slit their throat from ear to ear and feed them their words. 

Joe Sunday is Purity's brother. It isn't clear what he means by Purity's husband and why he is not speaking about her father by name.
June 15, 1879 Mattie Odom (Bowen) to Jane. Mentions Uncle Ben and Aunt Margaret, cousins Caroline and Mary Cammall (Campbell)

July 2, 1879 M. J. Cobb to Jane, mentions Daisy and Mollie, Jane’s father, Uncle Josh has moved to Florida, Edward and Benny living with her. (sons of brother Joshua).

July 15, 1880 Joshua Bowen to Edward B Bowen (his son) Mentions respects to Uncle Ben Passmore and family.

It is not clear if Benjamin A. Passmore (b 1822 Stewart county, GA) is actually an Uncle to Edward or to Joshua. We don't know the maiden  name of Joshua's wife Elizabeth.  
March 5, 1881 Mattie Odom (Bowen) to Jane. Mentions her son Franky, mentions not knowing where Lizzie and Pa are.

May 1, 1881 P A Bowen (Purity Sunday) to Jane Mentions Uncle Willis Jones, Lizzie Jones, Stevie Jones, cousin Mary McMillan, Mary Cobb, Pa (Jane’s) and Uncle Josh, Mentions Frank and Lizzie.

Willis Jones was the husband of a half sister to both Martha and Joshua Bowen (Cleopatra Palestine Brewster). Lizzie and Steve Jones were his children. Mary Cobb is a neighbor. I am not sure who Lizzie is, but Frank is a son of Margaret Cobb. Mary McMillan, maiden name McCaskill, is a cousin of both Purity and Jane. But it is not known yet which side of the family, the Bowen or the McCurdy side. She is a daughter of Allen McCaskill who was born 1814 in South Carolina. 


Black Country Roots

My great grandmother's family were poor workers in the black country of England. They worked in the mines and in the factories that produced glass. They went to the same churches as their ancestors. To see how little they moved.

The Old Carroll Trace and Choctaw Missions

Here is another map I made. First I took locations from an article found in Carroll County genweb. Then I tried to place the Choctaw Missionary schools and some other points of interest that I knew for my Choctaw families.

Panhandle roots

I often joke I am related to half of the county when I speak of Escambia or Santa Rosa. It really isn't that far off though it seems at times. Right now I am working on figuring out a few connections that I hope to blog about later this week. I am a visual person. So I made myself a map. It has landmarks for cemeteries, land locations, and places where my father's family has lived. Thought I would share it.

Sunday, March 6, 2016

My great great grandmother was NOT an indian princess

I owe my genealogy addiction to my grandfather's grandmother. To be more direct, it was wanting to figure out more about her that led me down this path. My grandfather wasn't a man of many words, but throughout my childhood I heard tales of his Indian grandmother, Margaret Adams. I think after reading the letters of her daughter, and speaking to them, and various cousins, my grandfather took a lot of Margaret with him in his life.

Like so many of his generations, especially the Choctaws I have been able to speak with, Pop didn't talk much about his family, or growing up. The child of an alcoholic mother, his childhood lacked any stability with the lone exception of his grandmother. Though he felt much, he really didn't show it all that much. Social, he wasn't a big talker, he left that to my grandmother. He believed in hard work, and loved to share the rewards with his family.

Margaret Trahern Adams was the second child of Robert H. Trahern "Bully" and his wife Cornelia Gardner. When she was 11 her mother died, and I suspect that though she had an education, it ended shortly after her mother's death. She helped raise her younger siblings along with her sister Admona "Addie". Her father, along I suspect, with his two brothers, often was on the shady side of the law, bootlegging  into the Choctaw nation.

Though the Trahern's had been a prominent, Pop didn't appear to have ever heard stories of the family, but it is evident that Margaret didn't forget. Among the Choctaw there existed a tradition, if names were after family at all, they were after the mother's side of the family. Margaret named her first son Curtis Hall Adams, after her maternal grandmother, Sarah Hall. I suspect the H in her father's name was for Hall as well. James Arthur Adams, was named after her paternal grandfather, James Trahern, his middle name was his father's. Samuel Jefferson Adams I suspect was named for her maternal grandfather, Samuel Gardner, though I haven't been able to prove that.

Yes, Margaret knew who her family was. And likely, she knew that her grandfather had been a prominent Choctaw judge who served in the Choctaw government, as did her Uncle's James and Lysander Trahern. She may have even known that her grandfather had attended the Choctaw Academy. Or that her grandmother was a first cousin to Tandy Walker, a Choctaw Chief (called Governor) during the Civil War.  Or that her grandmother's brother Robert J. Hall had been one of the first Choctaws who went to college, and was killed along with two brothers by slaves in an uprising in 1861.

By the time Margaret was born the Civil War had broken the finances of her family. While never to the scale of his half sister Eliza Ann Flack, or his half cousin, Robert M. Jones, James N. Trahern was among the prominent Choctaw elite. The great nephew of Chief Pushmataha, he married a great niece of Chief Mushulatubbee. Like his half brothers Pierre and William Juzan, and his cousins, James L. McDonald, Robert M. Jones, David Mackey, and his wife's cousin Peter Pitchylnn, he was sent to Scott, Kentucky to attend the Choctaw Academy. He returned to the Choctaw nation and began life as a clerk in the court at Skullyville, eventually becoming the Judge. He was connected by blood and then marriage to some of the most prominent Choctaws of his time.

Even if Margaret knew all this, she wouldn't have spoken about it. That was not the way of the Choctaws of the Dawes roll. Like many of her fellow Choctaws, within 12 years Margaret's allotment had been lost, as had the allotments of her children, through actions and poor decisions made by her husband Jason. Even among those who had been at the top of Choctaw Society, the Dawes act broke apart the lives of so many of it's people. The battle to survive day to day, in a world of poverty, prejudice and obstacles left many Choctaws too poor to do anything but survive. Margaret's children left home in their early teens, told they  had to work to support the family, many of them felt if they had to work they would rather support themselves alone.

It didn't matter to Margaret who her family had been. What mattered was who her family was. Her children and grandchildren I know adored her. Stern, taciturn, a strict disciplinarian, it would be easy to look at her and say she wasn't what today we considered to be a loving mother. Yet when her daughter's went to visit their brother, she stayed up and stitched them new dresses out of sack cloth to wear. She lovingly made the funeral clothes and lined the coffin her husband had made when her two children died as infants. She took in three of her grandsons when her daughters weren't taking care of them. She may not have said a lot, but her love was always apparent.

It seems popular today to be able to claim Native American ancestry. So many claim to link themselves to more well known Native American's, with little more than innuendo and legends, with no paper trail. Too many claim to descend from an Indian princess, and then are disappointed when their DNA doesn't show it. And while I still have more I can always learn, after 15 years, I know a lot about my Choctaw relatives. Their stories sadden me, inspire me, and make me proud. There is no royalty in my heritage, but there was an elite class among the Choctaws, and I have the honor and privilege to descend from it. Yet, I suspect if you were to be able to ask Margaret today, she would huff, and say, she was no Indian Princess. She was Choctaw.

Tuesday, March 1, 2016

Deep Roots

I never did spend much time researching my grandmother's father's family. I spent years working on her mother's English roots, and a lot of time trying to find her Paxton's in England, but the Hinds family, well, I had the book by Frank A Hinds and that seemed to be all I needed. Until I did DNA. What I discovered when I really looked and researched that branch, was roots deeper into the American story than all but two of my father's families. Of course my grandfather's native roots trump the Colonial any day, but I was amazed at how far back most of my grandmother's tree went.I had thought about talking about my American Revolution patriots, but heck, why bother, when I can talk about the first settlers in this new world. On Dad's side we have the Copeland and Brunson family alone who began their journey here by the mid 17th century. But on mom's, the list is much longer.

Here is a list of the Colonial Ancestor's of my great great grandfather, Leeroy Edwin Hinds. This list only includes known ancestors who arrived by 1650. For those of you rusty on your history, Jamestown was founded in Virginia in 1607. Plymouth, Massachusetts was found in 1620.

Robert Earle arrived 1638 to Rhode Island.

Thomas Newhall the first white child born in Lynn, Massachussetts around 1630. His father Thomas died in 1674 and his wife Mary who came from England.

Robert Carr, age 21 in 1635 and younger brother Caleb, age 11, came to America on the ship "Elizabeth Ann".  They settled in Rhode Island with their Uncle, William Carr.

Thomas Whittemore, emigrated to Malden, Massachussets where he died in 1661. He emigrated about 1650.

Richard Mellens became a freeman at Mass. Bay in 1639. His wife was Mary. He moved to Charles Town, Mass.

William Bassett arrived on the second ship to Plymouth in 1621. He was involved in a lot of the colonial government.

Nathaniel Tilden was at Plymouth in 1634. He died there in 1641. His wife came with him.

Thomas Lapham came also on the Hercules in 1634. He died in Plymouth in 1644.

Thomas Richardson of Woburn became a freeman in 1638 but arrived around 1632. He died in 1651. His wife Mary joined the church before him. Her maiden name is unclear.

Israel Reed born in 1642 in Scituate, Plymouth, Mass. Wife Mary Kendall was born in 1650 in Woburn, Mass. Her father, Robert Kendall helped to form Woburn, he arrived around 1640.

Edmond Goodenow arrived in 1638 settled Sudbury, Massachusetts.

John Moore settled in Sudbury by 1642. Wife was Dorothy Wright (? Widow) ancestor twice.

John Bent emigrated in 1638 and settled in Sudbury.

Hugh Drury settled in Sudbury by 1641.

Edmund Rice settled in Sudbury by 1645. Ancestor twice.

Peter Weare arrived in 1638. He ended up in Maine but started in Massachusetts.

John Stone arrived in Sudbury by 1643.

James Hinds arrived in Salem, Massachusetts in 1637.

Obadiah Wheeler arrived around 1638 to Concord, Massachusetts, became a freeman in 1641.

Edward Kibbe emigrated by 1637, first to Plymouth then to Boston. His wife Mary (questionable Partridge) may have been born in Massachusetts.

The Long family of Culpeper County - American Revolution patriots

I decided to work on this family last week when a new DNA match led me to look at some of the families I hadn't really worked on. One of the things I quickly figured out is that there is a lot of published information in the D.A.R. and other places that is incorrect. I say that because there is a paper trail.

Sarah Ann Owens the wife of John Sanders Barnes was the daughter of John J. Owens and Lucinda Long. Lucinda Long is a daughter of Evans Long and Lucinda "Lucy" Apperson. The estate records for Lucy Apperson's father clearly connect Evans Long to her. What comes into question is the parents of Evans Long. After looking into the family, every child used the name Evans, so the DAR histories made little sense. And then I did a google search and found it here.

Amelia Co, VA WB 2:157) September 12, 1773 - No probate date. Will of Anne STERN. Legatees: Daughters: Mary LONG; Tabitha STERN; Sarah MEREDITH and her children [not named]. Sons: John EVANS; Francis STERN and his children [not named]. Grandchildren: Allen JETER; Rodofel JETER; Tabitha JETER; MASON JETER; Jane JETER. Sons-in-law Ambrose JETER and Sampson MEREDITH.
(Amelia Co, VA DB 9:175) Re Ann STERN'S estate, mention is made of Negroes in possession of Reuben LONG of Culpeper County.
Executors: Brother Francis ANDERSON and daughter Tabitha STERN, Wit: Christopher FORD and Richard ANDERSON (Will Book 2, Amelia County, Virginia. Gibson Jefferson McConnaughey)

The reason that the negroes were in the possession of Reuben Long is that he was the husband of Mary Long, and Mary Long was the sister to John Evans, and a daughter by Ann Anderson and her first husband, John Evans.

The Long family often used surnames in their naming patterns. I have no idea why they named a child Mary "Polly" Harrison, unless it was named for Reuben Long's grandmother Margaret Harrison, or if maybe, and it is possible that his mother Elizabeth was also a Harrison. I guess that brings me to some of the newer published rumors on the internet and ancestry.

Reuben Long the father of Evans Long had four sons in his will, not five. All of these sons did appear to have served in the American Revolution, Evans, Gabriel, Nimrod and Anderson (and yes it is not Andrew). Reuben by YDNA of a Nimrod Long descendant is related not to the Brumford Long group but to the Ware Long group. Looking at the documentation in transcription of estates and deeds, I believe Reuben is the son of Richard Long and his wife Elizabeth.

Richard Long born 1705 and died in 1761 was a son of Gabriel Long and Margaret Harrison. He was mentioned in his grandfather Harrison's will. Gabriel Long was a son of Jeremiah Long and his wife Frances. He had two brothers, Richard Long and John Long. Ware Long, born in 1720 appears to be a grandson of Richard Long. It is important to note that  descendants of all three brothers use the same names, and that a son of Brumford Long also is named Reuben, and all of these folks lived in Culpeper county. Earliest records are in Essex county, the families living in Rappahannock.

Margaret Harrison was the daughter of Andrew Harrison and his wife Elinor Long Elliot.

While we know that Nimrod Long got land in Georgia as his bounty land, he did not live there long, he instead moved to I believe Kentucky. Anderson Long moved to Missouri where a pension for him exists for his American Revolution service. Gabriel Long also migrated to Kentucky. The Nicholas Long who moved to Wilkes county along with Evans Long and his sisters and their husbands was probably a cousin, but of which relative I am unsure since the records indicate multiple men of the same generation and name.

The children for Reuben Long and Mary Evans by his will and deeds are sons Gabriel, Nimrod, Evans, and Anderson Long and daughters Mary Polly Harrison Nash, Margaret (Peggy) Kay, and Fanny Richardson.

The children of Richard Long and his wife Elizabeth are Reuben, William, John, James and Gabriel. I have no information on daughters.

Gleanings from Gates County- the Saunders family and the King family

While the ancestors of Jesse Sanders can be connected, those of  Henry and Joseph Sanders (an internet source has the father as Charles Saunders who was in the same militia unit as the King family) cannot. A census of 1785 shows that by then Sarah King Sanders was already a widow. She actually owned quite a lot of property. She willed her estate to her three sons Benjamin, Henry and Joseph and to a daughter, Elizabeth Crawford.

Sarah King Sanders mentions land she devises as land she received from her father Henry King. There is actually a few sites devoted to this King family. Henry King (the father of Sarah King's) death is recorded in the will of his nephew Solomon King. Solomon King also wrote he was the grandson of William King and that his grandfather was Michael King and his grandmother's name (though not his grandmothers). Records for Michael King and his prodigy begin in Nansemond County, Virginia where he was brought over as a bonded servant by Edward King.

Estate records for Henry King are missing, but there are deeds to some of his children recorded in Chowan county, one of them is Sarah King Sanders. Henry King died in 1771. Sarah King Sanders died in 1803. Shortly after her son Benjamin died, he had no children. In 1807 Henry Sanders died and in 1808 Joseph Sanders died.

Thomas Barnes was the executor of the estates of most of this family, which is why I believe that this is the most likely family for the mother of John Sanders Barnes to have come from. Since Thomas Barnes was the guardian of the minor children of both Henry and Joseph. We do know that Joseph Sanders was married to Miriam Sanders, a daughter of Jesse Sanders who died in 1809. They had only one child, a daughter Mary who is named in the will of Jesse Sanders as Mary Cross (she had married Elijah Cross).

Elijah Cross did sue the estate of Mary "Polly" Sanders, the daughter of Henry in 1819. He wanted a share since the land of Sarah had been divided between the heirs of Joseph and Henry. However, he wouldn't have had a right to it (it was a decade later), and I am not sure at all why John wasn't mentioned. But since the only Mary related to Lawrence and Jesse is the daughter of Joseph (through her mother), and she's the wife of Elijah Cross, I really don't think there is another Mary to be the mother of John Sanders.

Estate records for Henry show that some if not all of his children were illegitimate. No marriage exists for him that I can find until the year of his death. His eldest daughter was married to Stoh Beazley alias Watson,  her name was Abbie or Abigail. His son, William is listed as both Saunders and Beasley in records, and then there is Nancy and Mary "Polly" Saunders or Beazley. The guardian for these children, along with Mary the daughter of Joseph Saunders/Sanders was Thomas Barnes. Mary the daughter of Joseph Sanders was married to Elijah Cross by 1811, but Mary the daughter of Henry was still a minor at that time. Sarah Saunders land was bordered by Jethro Summers and Jesse Sanders. Jesse Sanders did have a daughter Mary but she was married to Samuel Sharlock by 1811. None of the grandchildren of Jesse except for the daughter of Miriam (and Joseph) was named Mary.

There are two marriage bonds for a Mary Saunders, one signed by Thomas Barnes in 1815 with Samuel Darden and another, undated but from 1817-1820 per transcribers, to James Barnes. Apparently though, the earlier marriage didn't occur. We do find Samuel Darden purchasing items at Thomas Barnes estate, but he is no where else in any records for the county or nearby counties that I can find. James Barnes, the son of Richard Barnes apparently moved to Nansemond county. It is possible he married our Mary, but by all accounts it appears she was dead by 1820.

The sales of the estates do show that both Sanders families interacted. Whether or not they are, and they probably were, related I cannot yet determine.

It is interesting to note that Charles King, the first cousin of Sarah King Sanders was married to a daughter of Thomas Barnes Sr. This family, and the family of Amelia "Millie" Parker interacted by the estate records and moved to Bertie County.